Translated primarily by MTminded. Estimated at 95% accuracy or better.

Yan (Interviewer): Can you tell me how Legend of Dragoon was conceived? How did you come up with the idea?

Hasebe: The concept for the game started 3 years ago. Having been involved in making RPGs for a while, I have gained a good amount of expertise in this area. I’ve learned what I needed to do to make games interesting and was eager to make an RPG of my own. That was when the Legend of Dragoon started to take shape.

Yan: To be specific, “3 years ago” would be 1996, so when exactly did production start?

Hasebe: Hmmm, around February of 1996. After the initial planning process, I took a break for 1-2 months. At the time, I started to think about the game system. It was around July when I actually started working on it. I spent a total of 4 months just going over rough ideas, thinking through how to do certain aspects of the game. 

Yan: May I ask about your previous work?

Hasebe: Of course. Prior to working on the Legend of Dragoon, I was at Square for 5 years. When I first started there, I worked on a Super Famicom game called “Hanjuku Hero” where I worked on the monsters and battle system. The second project I worked on was the battle system for “Final Fantasy V”.  After that project concluded, the 3rd one I worked on was the battle system for “Super Mario RPG”. Up until this time, my focus was primarily on battle systems, and while I didn’t have strong feelings towards it at first, I grew to find it more interesting and fulfilling. After wrapping up my third project, I realized I wanted to bring my own style to both the battle system and other areas of game design, which ultimately led to the creation of “The Legend of Dragoon”.

Yan: Earlier you mentioned gaining expertise, among your earlier work, which part would you say specifically became the foundation for the “Legend of Dragoon”?

Hasebe: It all started with the battle system. Traditional battle systems can often give players the impression that it’s a “grind”, “boring”, and a “time suck”. We put in a lot of effort In order to not leave players feeling this way. We actually experimented with this while working on “Super Mario RPG”. Rather than having the player issuing an attack command and just watching the character perform it, we added the ability for players to press an attack button at the right time to deal a killer blow. When we initially pitched this mechanic, the reception was quite mixed. Some felt it was too cumbersome, and others thought that it would disrupt the rhythm. But after implementing it, players thought it was “really fun!” This became the basis of the Additions system.

Yan: So you’re saying that the Additions system from Legend of Dragoon was born out of the timed attack system (from Super Mario RPG)?

Hasebe: That’s right.

Yan: So it first started with the Additions system, then came other aspects of the game such as the story and setting?

Hasebe: You can say that. We had the Additions system first, then I wanted to work on a mechanic that allows players to transform. Although I have thought about adding such a mechanic in previous work, I remember saying to myself that “I’ll add a transformation mechanic next time”. I was trying to figure out what the characters could transform into. Even though there are many types of transformation, I personally like fantasy settings and especially dragons. So I thought, if we’re going to add transformations, then dragons would be my top choice, not to mention they would seem very powerful. I did consider other creatures that can be transformed into, but in the end I still like dragons the most. However, at one point I thought, it might make sense for a hero (male) to transform into a dragon, but if a heroine also transfers into a dragon it might leave players disappointed (laughs). Therefore, we came up with the concept of a humanoid dragon form, and after getting an artist to draw some sketches, the concept of the dragoon started to take shape.

Yan: Was the idea of transformation always on your mind? Where did you get the inspiration from?

Hasebe: Well… When I was little all the heroes I saw could transform. Such as “Kamen Rider”, “Ultraman” and even “Superman”. At the time, it was common sense that heroes would transform, so I would say this idea has been ingrained in me ever since I was a child. Besides, everyone wishes to be able to transform into a stronger version of themselves right? That’s why I wanted to incorporate it in the game.

Yan: Mr. Hasebe, earlier you mentioned that the Additions system was built upon a mechanic in “Super Mario RPG”. Can you speak more to its development process?

Hasebe: Initially, we wanted the player to hold an action button and then press the directional buttons to slash up, down and horizontally…

Yan: Sounds almost like an action game!

Hasebe: That’s right, it was indeed like an action game. But during testing, we found it too difficult to play. Not only was it hard to control, it also wasn’t fun. Maybe people who like fighting games will find it appealing, but usually RPG players don’t like this style of gameplay so we abandoned the idea. Later, I thought, maybe we can still do attack chains this way. Initially, we made it such that you didn’t just press the O button, we incorporated X, △, □ buttons as well. All the buttons were used! 

Yan: Sounds just like “快活喇叭” (laughs)

Hasebe: That’s right (laughs), also we thought of adding a timing indicator for the button you would press to perform the special attack. If you pressed right on time, the character would attack, otherwise the character wouldn’t.

Yan: It’s sounding more and more like “快活喇叭” (laughs)

Hasebe: However, when we were working on it, there was no “快活喇叭” (laughs). Even though such a mechanic has been done before, it wasn’t as fun. Also when we put the timing indicator at the bottom of the screen, players will only stare at that area instead of focusing on the battle. It was very frustrating, our idea again did not work out. We had a lot of discussions about how to approach this battle mechanic, trying to figure out what exactly we want the player to do during an attack. In the end we decided to not include all the buttons and just use the O button. However, if it’s just the O button, then it becomes too easy. We felt that we can still refine it to make it more challenging. After half a year of iterations, we arrived at the current Additions system. 

Yan: What a difficult journey. 

Hasebe: The shrinking square box came later. That was conceived by our battle system director, he came up with it after discussing it with the animation director. He’s a fan of fighting games, that’s probably why he thought of it.

CG Animation

Yan: Another question is about the cinematics. There’s about 30 minutes of CG footage in the game, were those all done in-house?

Hasebe: Not all, we outsourced about a quarter of it.

Yan: So were there any issues encountered during the CG production?

Hasebe: You may have to ask our art director Kenichi Iwata. He often would say the phrase “pursue reality”, even though it’s set in a fantasy world, it must be made to appear as real as possible.

Yan: Has Hasebe-san made any requests on the CG animation?

Hasebe: Nope! Generally I stay out of the way in certain areas, Iwata is much more of an expert than me, the stuff he’s made has always exceeded my expectation. So when it comes to the art direction, I give him full creative control. For example, when designing the race from each region, and the look of the cities, its shops and so on, I took care of the basic decisions, but I left the design to him. 

Yan: I see.

Hasebe: Additionally, I decided on details such as whether a place should have snow and another should be a desert, but I left the design to the designers.

Yan: So during the 3-year development period, when did animation and CG become more important elements of the game?

Hasebe: Heh… in the second half, mostly in the last year. It takes 3 to 6 months to make each CG animation video, which is very time consuming. Before it’s complete, it looks very rough, doesn’t look good at all. The videos were starting to be completed about a year ago. At the time when we saw the final creation, we all thought “Wow, this is awesome!” Everyone started to see the value of the animations. 

Yan: In that case, how many people were in the development team? In the instruction manual it says that more than 200 people were involved in this production, how many actually?

Hasebe: There were about a dozen people in the first year. Once we really ramped up production in the 2nd year, it was about 50 people. By the 3rd year, when you add up everyone, it was about 80 people. 

Yan: When did you decide that it would be 4 CDs?

Hasebe: At the very end. We didn’t consider the number of CDs at all. Our goal was to produce the desired scope, regardless of the number of CDs required. Then when it came time to burn the contents onto CDs, which was around March of this year, we were informed that it wouldn’t fit on one disk. I suggested using two disks, but that wasn’t enough either. Then I proposed using three disks, but that still wasn’t enough. The final animation turned out to be much larger than expected, so we decided to use four disks. After cutting some parts out, it barely fit into 4 disks. We almost had to use 5 disks (laughs).

Yan: So you’re saying parts in the 5th disk were all cut out?

Hasebe: Yep, they got cut out. (laughs)

Yan: Which parts were cut out?

Hasebe: CG animations.

Yan: Such a shame.

Hasebe: It was an animation that was just completed plus ones that were scheduled to be worked on, we stopped production on those ones.

Yan: For RPGs, if the player doesn’t feel a connection with the main characters, the game would not be successful. Were there extra efforts put into creating them?

Hasebe: Yes, the Additions system helps to foster a sense of connection between the player and the characters. In traditional RPGs, the player simply observes battles from the sidelines and issues commands, but they don’t actually participate in the fight. However, with the Additions system, the player gradually becomes more involved, unconsciously feeling as though they are the ones striking down the enemies. In this way, the player and character become united as one.

The Characters

Yan: The game features a diverse cast of characters. Does Hasebe-san have a favorite among them?

Hasebe: Yes, I have! It’s Dart. I think he’s a great character, and so is Rose. Initially, I planned for Rose to be the protagonist and for the story to revolve around her, with Dart serving as a controlled character. In fact, Rose was a character that was cut when I was working on “Super Mario RPG”.

Yan: Really? Even the name Rose and her characteristics?

Hasebe, Yes both, the character is very similar to a character I suggested when working on Super Mario RPG, but the character was canceled during the design phase. At the time I said to Rose: “I’ll make sure to incorporate you next time”

Yan: Ah so that’s what happened.

Hasebe: Therefore, the first character that we decided on was Rose (laughs).

Yan: Even before Dart?

Hasebe: Before Dart. (laughs)

Yan: It appears that this character has been with you for a while now, with their name and personality already established before any other characters were defined.

Hasebe: I’ve probably put more thought into this character than Dart.

Yan: So is there a location in the game that’s your personal favorite?

Hasebe: Location? I think my favorite is ラスダン,I’m captivated by its setting and I envision transforming it into a dreamy world with miniature versions of everything, where the laws of space and the flow of time don’t apply.

Yan: Were there any scenes in the game that were your favorites?

Hasebe: Hmmm, I think it was all done very well and I like them all…

Yan: What would you say are your top 3?

Hasebe: First of all, Lavitz’s death, which was very impactful and dramatic. Then there is the scene of Dart falling into the sea during the Phantom ship. When Rose saw this, it reminded her of her lover Zieg. It is a rare moment where Rose shows some vulnerability and human emotions. And what I like the most is the scene where Lloyd gave Dart the Spirit of the Divine Dragon at the end. It may be a bit cliché, but it makes people feel that Lloyd is really a good person. These would be my three favorite scenes.

Yan: Are there any secret levels or unique items in the game?

Hasebe: There are many! And hidden items as well.

Yan: Would some of these items make your character powerful?

Hasebe: Of course! Incredibly powerful, anyone would want them. But it requires a lot of effort to discover them.

Yan: Are there items that you can only get at the very end of the game?

Hasebe: No, you can get all of them throughout the game. But it’s up to the player whether to look for them or not! There is a treasure chest located on the Phantom ship that can be looted multiple times, and players can obtain a valuable item on the final loot. You can start to get decent items around the fifth attempt.

Yan: What about the hidden levels?

Hasebe: Certainly, by gathering all of the Stardust, the player can acquire a special item, which can be used to exchange for an item that can access the hidden level. However, there is a formidable opponent in that level who is as strong as the final boss. If the player is successful in defeating this opponent, they will be rewarded with many valuable items. But, considering the strength of this opponent, it may be wiser to defeat the final boss instead (laughs). The difficulty level of this opponent is very high.

Questions from Taiwanese players

Yan: We have some questions from Taiwanese players regarding the character level cap of 60. Is this level limit considered too low, and if not, is there any specific reason for this design choice?

Hasebe: Ah, originally the character level was set to be 99, but due to memory limitations, it had to be reduced. The data for the higher level was already created, but had to be cut.

Yan: Ah I see

Hasebe: The main program had to be stored in the main memory, but there wasn’t enough space left to store other things once the main program was in place. Initially, several discussions were held to remove certain parts, including parts of the program code and animation, but it was eventually determined that even more had to be deleted. However, since cutting any further was no longer possible, it was decided to reduce the character levels to 60.

Yan: Seems like mainly caused by the memory limitation 

Hasebe: That’s right, otherwise, we could’ve had the max level at 99

Yan: Although players say it’s not easy to level up

Hasebe: It is true that earning experience points can be challenging, but we have made adjustments to make it comparable to other RPGs. If a boss requires you to level up your character from level 20 to 50 in order to defeat, it will certainly be difficult. However, even though the character’s overall level may not increase, their Additions level can, which will result in a 1.5 to 2 times increase in attack power during battles.

Additionally, improving one’s skills will also contribute to an increase in the dragoon’s level. By enhancing their spiritual points, it is possible to reach level 5 as a dragoon in the first chapter without much difficulty.

Yan: I heard that boss fights are very tough, can you elaborate on this?

Hasebe: Regarding tough boss battles, basically, we were aiming for the player to use up the items they’re carrying. The fact that you can only carry 32 items is not because of hardware limitations, but we purposely designed it that way. if you can carry a lot of items, then there’s no need to buy them. We limited the number you can carry so you would have to buy them and enjoy the fun of shopping. However, because money is limited, you can’t just buy everything, you would have to make tradeoff decisions on which to buy in order to really cherish your purchase. Since you can’t use magic, you’ll start to realize the importance of props. The reason for not having magic is that magic in RPGs are far too convenient and almost no items are used. So we transferred the importance of magic into items. This way, it creates a virtuous cycle which is why we limited it to 32 items. 

Yan: I see.

Hasebe: Although the boss is very strong, he also has weaknesses. As long as you find them, you can easily knock them down. We didn’t want you to be able to defeat the boss in three turns after becoming a Dragoon, it would be too boring. Therefore, we designed a boss who can seal the Dragoon. This point is to hope that players will keep in mind the timing and method of using Dragoon.

Yan: It’s a pity that the dialogues have only subtitles and no dubbing, why is that?

Hasebe: This is also due to hardware limitations. Originally, I wanted to add it, but if it did, the CD would need to be read during the speech. Even now without sound, it already needs to be read continuously. If we had added voice audio for all the dialogues, the game data would not be read, therefore the voice dialogue were not added.

Yan: It sounds like a space issue that couldn’t allow the audio to be added.

Hasebe: That’s right

Yan: Anything else that you wanted to do but couldn’t due to limitations?

Hasebe: I was hoping to refine the world more, where certain events are exclusive to the world map, allowing players to embark on new adventures by exploring the world and discovering new places after hearing news about them. While there are already many exciting world attributes, it is unfortunate that some ideas had to be cut and left unrealized.

Yan: I see

Hasebe: Unfortunately, hardware limitations impacted the smoothness of the animation and visual effects in the game. The original plan was to have the battles run at 60FPS, but it had to be reduced to 20FPS due to memory constraints. Similarly, the visuals were intended to be more breathtaking, but hardware limitations prevented this. The movements of characters, such as speaking and blinking, were also affected by these limitations. I had hoped to create a more immersive experience with added effects, such as the flow of water and splashes when characters cross a river, but unfortunately, these ideas had to be put on hold. While the overall level of presentation is still high, I want to incorporate these features in the next installment.

Legend of Dragoon for the PS2!

Yan: Next time? …. You mean a sequel!?

Hasebe: Yes.

Yan: What would a Legend of Dragoon follow up look like?

Hasebe: At least a Legend of Dragoon 2. I don’t know if there will be more after, but at least I will make a second installment.

Yan: Of course it should be for the PS2 right?

Hasebe: That’s right.

Yan: How far along is it?

Hasebe: I’ve thought of the general idea, it’s all in my mind

Yan: In other words, it’s in the similar state as spring time 3 years ago?

Hasebe: Yes, exactly like that stage, The basic ideas of fight scenes and directionality are already in place

Yan: Is it built upon the current battle system?

Hasebe: The structure might change. Because it’ll be using the PS2 hardware, I want to make it more 3-dimensional.

Yan: So it’s like what you’ve said before about things you wanted to do but couldn’t.

Hasebe: That’s right, although the concept of the world map might go away.

Yan: Is it because some things are no longer needed?

Hasebe: That’s right.

Yan: Will it build upon the characters and world building of the first one?

Hasebe: Basically.

Yan: Characters too?

Hasebe: Some of the characters will return

Yan: Maybe it’s too early to ask. In terms of timelines, will the sequel take place after the first game?

Hasebe: No, it’ll take place before. 

Yan: So…do we still have to wait another 3 years? (laughs)

Hasebe: It won’t take that long. I think it took too long for this one. I don’t think taking a long time translates to good work produced. I think the next one can be made in 2 years.

Yan: Will the script be longer this time?

Hasebe: It might be less. The current game requires a lot of back-and-forth travel, so the world will be smaller in the next installment. My goal is to make the interactions, events, and conversations between characters more intricate and detailed.”

Parting words to our Taiwanese players

Yan: Finally, is there anything else you would like to say to our readers in the Asian region?

Hasebe: The player’s experience with the battle system will have a significant impact on how successful the game will be. As a result, I strive to make the battles more enjoyable for players. Although it may seem repetitive or monotonous, it gives players the opportunity to strategize and think about their approach. By finding and exploiting an enemy’s weaknesses, players can experience the thrill of victory. My ultimate goal is to provide players with an enjoyable and exciting gaming experience.

Yan: Thank you so much for speaking with us today.